"SIR" and "SLUT"

breaking taboos and defining limits
A discussion of word use and emotional triggers

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Session Start: Sun Apr 04 18:37:26 1999
*** Now talking in #bdsmfriends DalNet

<jupiter-> Hi there Sir
<whitewing> rehi sandy
<sandymay^> sorry to everyone that responded in the last channel
<sandymay^> i read your responses, but i was distracted by something that couldn't be helped
<sweetp{Slo}> np sandy :)

<Sir> sandymay does the word SIR bother you in play?
<sandymay^> yes it does Sir,
<sandymay^> it automatically places the sub in a lesser position

<LadyAnne> my former Master didn't like me to use it with him at all, it made him feel old :)
* cyn`d finds her pillows and listens

<sandymay^> it makes me feel more powerless
<Sir> is there something in your upbringing that makes you feel this way sandy?

<sandymay^> oh yeah, years of psychological abuse from bros and hub
<LadyAnne> I've known several Dom's who don't like it's use <shrug>

<sandymay^> but i've also studied gender relations and know that ppl can be subordinated thru the use of language

<LadyAnne> I enjoy using it when it's appropriate, and with someone I respect

<Sir> I remember being in my 20's and a fella at the grocery store in my home town answered my query with a " Yes Sir" the man must have been in his 60's. I learned that day that common respect knows no boundaries.

<cyn`d> nods at LadyAnne

<sweetp{Slo}> not just in gender relationships, sandy

<LadyAnne> that's just it sandymay.. I for one enjoy feeling submissive.. subordinate.. in play
<sandymay^> i met a Dom from my city on-line last night, from the beginning he insisted i call him Sir

LadyAnne is now known as suziheart

<cyn`d> i believe for alot raised in the South...it's basically a term of respect always

<sweetp{Slo}> language is loaded, and everyone has to agree as nearly as possible on the meanings ... if he insists on Sir and it's intolerable to you, probably the rest won't work as well

<sandymay^> it made me feel second-class immediately, when i told him my boundaries, he told i would get use to it

<Sir> So you bring a lot of baggage into your exploration of D/s. What if I told you, you're use of SIR or being "trained" to use it might help you liberate from the emotional abuse of your family?

<sandymay^> i wouldn't believe you Sir

<Sir> I remember a discussion of "humiliation" where a woman spoke of the first time her Dom called her "Slut" in scene.....

<cyn`d> but sandymay....being submissive doesn't mean doormat...not everyone deserves the honorific title of Sir

<sandymay^> the fact that you are "trained" also means a loss of choice on the subs part

<Sir> let me finish sandy? Or is it a lost cause?
*cyn`d listens to Sir
* sweetp{Slo} smiles at Sir and listens

* Sir steps back having perhaps spoken too much already.
<suziheart> personally.. that "s" word is a landmine for me.. but at the appropriate time from the appropriate person.. it's wonderful.. and it has taken a lot of time for that to be the case for me.. and it has also resolved some of the "landmine" feeling I get when I hear it

<cyn`d> no Sir, Sir..you haven't

<sandymay^> your opinions have not upset me Sir, i am interested in them

<cyn`d> please continue?
<sweetp{Slo}> i'd like to hear what ya have to say, Sir
* whitewing finds Your input very well Sir Sir

<Sir> the woman spoke about how the minute the word was used. she remembered her deflowering in the back of a 19xx automobile. And immediately how she imagined the word used on her by classmates.

<sandymay^> how which word was used?

<cyn`d> nods...the world "slut" brings up alot of Sir connotations for most

<Sir> She went on about how it was hard to face everyone in school after allowing THAT to happen. Knowing they prolly would all consider her a "Slut"..... eventually she graduated school and moved on...

<Sir> scroll back sandy this is important to follow.

<sandymay^> ok
<Sir> I'll wait till you indicate you are up to speed.

* a_sub thinks Sir Sir has been reading her diary LOL

<sandymay^> i'm up to speed already, thanks Sir
* cyn`d smiles and nods at a_sub*hug*

<Sir> So here is this woman .. years later.. ( and this was HER telling of it) and the word comes up n a scene and she all but freezes but continues to the end of the scene.

<Sir> Now most people do Aftercare and I like to do what is the final stage of a good scene called "Processing" When the chemicals subside a day later or so and you discuss the high and low points of a scene.

<Sir> In their "processing" of the scene She discussed frankly.. what her aversion was to the word "slut".

<Sir> She WANTED to get over it... but had a hard time reconciling it.

<Sir> The two talked. She began to realize that there was no REAL judgment being placed on her with that language. It was a word designed to titillate both. The woman Does get wet and enjoy sex... but she had school girl shame attached with her own body and it's automatic reactions....

<Sir> But working and trusting with her Dom she not only allows the word but relishes in it as it is now breaking a social taboo and permitting her real sexuality.

* sweetp{Slo} smiles
<Sir> So the key... is trust.

<sandymay^> so perhaps i just met a Dom last night who was trying to recruit me with his idea of what a sub should be, without considering what i want

[Sir note. sandymay^ never acknowledges the lesson the anecdote offers here]

* cyn`d smiles softly and nods

<suziheart> I believe that may very well be the case sandymay

<sandymay^> i did resent being told from the start to call him Sir, when i didn't even know him or the places he was talkinga bout

<Sir> If someone Mandates that you call him or her Sir... and you don't feel it. Don't. Submission is granted not stolen. But if you wish to work in the tradition of this lifestyle you may wish to work though your issue with the word. You will grow from the work. I promise.

<Sir> See?

<sweetp{Slo}> when it's right, the level of mutual trust and respect is quite ... astonishing ... and it -is- mutual

* suziheart nods in agreement with Sir Sir
<sandymay^> i don't have an issue with the word, i have an issue with the subordinated position where choice is removed

<Sir> exactly sandy. Don't ever give anything away, Especially on line,there are a lot of dudes just playing the numbers looking for the most compliant people to use.

* sweetp{Slo} nods emphatically

<cyn`d> one important thing to remember, sandymay? You're the one giving YOUR submission to a trusted Dom....they can't TAKE that

<sandymay^> i can believe that Sir

<suziheart> that's why it's a power *exchange* :)

<sandymay^> well i guess my extra sensitivity, comes from having had my power stolen most of my life, and having had to fight to get it back

<sandymay^> this is an enlightening conversation

* suziheart whispers confidentially to sandymay.. ermmm.. there are plenty of "Wannabe" Dom's online too

<sweetp{Slo}> that's not uncommon, sandy, and certainly understandable

<cyn`d> nods nods nods

<Sir> Thanks sandy I am grateful for you to give me an audience on such a sensitive issue.

<sandymay^> i mean i like bdsm sex, but the power issue, never became "in my face" until last night

<Jupiter> Could it also be sandy that he was insisting on you calling him xxxx - so two issues - one with the word Sir & the other issue the insistence of you doing something when you have just met

<Sir> May I send you to my web site?

<sandymay^> ;-) here welcome Sir

<whitewing> may i also look at Your website Sir ?
<sweetp{Slo}> i'd like to see Your site, Sir :)

<sandymay^> sure Sir

<Sir> Power exchange has to be voluntary. even in play rape scenes or abduction play.. there has to be some basis for trust or mutual respect before the fantasy is explored.

<Sir> http://vanilla-not.com

<cyn`d> sandymay....how do you mean you "like bdsm sex" but the power issue?

<sandymay^> he was strongly suggesting Jupiter, wasn't too interested in what my limits were

<Sir> Almost wish I could include this SIR discussion on the site.

<sandymay^> i could send you the log Sir, i automatically log all my chats and then delete them when i'm finished them

<Sir> So your full nick might read... sandymay she may not! <wink>

<Jupiter> ahhh sandy that is what I thought

<sandymay^> cyn`d, since i have never done r/l bdsm, the power issue is easier to ignore, when it's still at the fantasy stage, and i still have all of the control

* sweetp{Slo} grins

<cyn`d> sandymay^...did you see my question? I'll paste just in case you didn't:

<Sir> Keep your power but select carefully and share it sometimes.

<sandymay^> yes, i just answered your question cyn`d, thanks


<suziheart> any objections from anyone else here to posting it?
<cyn`d> not at all suzi :)
<sweetp{Slo}> certainly no objections from me

<suziheart> sandymay, online is a great way to explore BDSM when you are way new...

<suziheart> if you decide to try r/l, just take it slow :)
<sandymay^> yes, i would think so suziheart

<Sir> sandy.. may I ask you a question.

<sandymay^> sure Sir

<Sir> Have I enlightened you a little or given you new confidence?

<sandymay^> you've reassured me that i am to be choosy about who i give my power too, and under what circumstances, Sir

<sandymay^> but this reassurance also comes from the other members' comments, as well

* cyn`d smiles...excellent start, sandymay^

<Sir> Good. would it be hard for you to say "Thank you Sir" to me in respect for the lifestyle and my effort at giving to you rather than taking from you?

<sandymay^> thank you Sir
<Sir> how did that feel?
<Sir> You are MOST welcome by the way.
<sandymay^> has left IRC Sun Apr 04 19:03:28 1999

sandymay^ exited the channel at this point. However she did keep in contact via several E-mail exchanges that will be posted here soon.
<Sir> We will never know! < sigh> < warm smile>
* cyn`d smiles...well maybe she'll stop and think
* suziheart agrees :)
<Sir> But there was progress. I love when there is forward motion.
> it gets very disheartening to hear new subs online meet some macho newbie Dom who thinks if he's called "Sir" he's auto Dom
* suziheart grins.. you Dom you Sir :)
> lol suzi
<Sir> dommed if ya do Dommed if ya don't! < grin>
<whitewing> hehehe
<suziheart> I know cyn`d.. and at first I wondered if she might be from that group who "interviews" submissives to try to show that they are in this without consent
*** Sir is now known as OttoDom
*** Sir has left IRC

 

 

The point she makes about a "Dom" not hearing a submissives limits is in fact a critical one.

Before one submits to another in a healthy power exchange, both sides should have a sincere and clear awareness of what will and will not be permitted to happen.. Since not EVERY possibility can be forseen... the concept of having safewords and other trusted people, present, involved or fully aware of the specifics of the exchange..... is vital.

To work without safewords or safe calls... or to be with holding about your limits, fears, or aversions up front, is just inviting abuse. Don't become a victim. If the Top can't hear or agree to your terms... Don't continue. If it seems to take an inordinate amount of explaining or bargaining, proceed with extreme caution. Good communication is the cornerstone to building trust and having a healthy power exchange.

- Sir